\"THE GRAVY TRAIN\" (FAMILY LAW PROCESS)

I thought I would start this thread to see what other Wiki's experiences were of the Family Court Process was. (Pips I know you will love this one)
My Ancillary Relief is still ongoing after 4years. Joint legal of 460k to date. I am sure there are a lot of you out there that probably think cant be so but it is. My "Final"!!!! hearing 6 weeks ago was not. I watched three Barristers pontificate over nothing running up more fees sat behind them were three sols depending on their hourly rate were either scribbling on pads or laptops the one sol even had a paralegal with him taking more notes. It was so obvious the two barristers on the other side were dragging the whole process out just to try and derail AGAIN and they succeeded now have to wait another 8 months. During my cross examination I was aggressively asked why I didnt know what my legal fees were off the top of my head. I replied quite graphically that just the mere thought makes me feel physically sick. I looked at everyone in front of me turned to the judge and asked why he couldnt stop this ridiculous GRAVY TRAIN that they have all jumped onto. He stuttered and asked to carry on. The unbeleivable thing is I am now on legal aid and my ex just gives me a mere £16 a week for our two children through the CSA. Sorry if sounds like a rant any thoughts.

It is a simple and straight forward process. Just agree to a settlement with your ex. You will not then be required to spend money on legal fees.

Of course, you have instructed and continue to instruct solicitors and barristers on your behalf yet you are annoyed that they charge for their services. You do want their assistance but you do not want to pay so you want them for free?

By your own admission the solicitors and barrister have not solved your problem - perhaps now is the time to go it alone?

Charles

Well initial thoughts the pair of you need your heads banging together.
You must both be as bad as each other and to stuff your family pot to the tune of £460k that could have gone on both of you and the kids is utter madness.
You both must be in a very fortunate position when this is over to both have more money than sense.
And if you ain't arguing this hard and spending that much over at least a couple of million to carve up I'd recommend a nice padded cell together.
all the best
Pete xx

I think that it would be better process all round if as a part of the process of divorce EVERYONE had to fill in an easily worded form E, with evidence and submit it to a judge, who would then, in the comfort of their own sofa decide what the split was to be. A sort of FDR-lite. This would then stand unless both wanted to agree something else or one wanted to argue it (because if one person wants to argue it's going to cost anyway) then straight to FH, why an FA? why multiple FDR's? why chance after chance to postpone, delay, not comply/supply evidence? And properly worded plain english explanations from the courts about the whole process so you don't have to spend tons getting this from solicitors. A new career of court-family law form-filling expert could be made and charge £20 per hour to assist (which is still a nice healthy 40K a year salary) instead of £100-250 an hour. The whole pre-amble is so lengthy and costly.

Why do we need barristers to interpret/present our needs to a judge and to predict what the likely outcome would be? In the end it seems to be just based on a judge's opinion, not even on the evidence before them. I'm not saying that sols and barristers don't earn their dosh, becuase the whole thing is opaque and arcane. But why should this aspect of law be so complicated that it requires interpretation to this extent?

and yes dizzy - that is an insane amount of money, I can't imagine how muc would be left in a pot to fight over with legal fees of that much. I'm quite glad I'm fairly poor and don't have that much to spend LOL! I think at some point one of you just has to think "enough - this isn't worth anymore of my life taken up with this - I can live and move on with "x" amount - good riddence to him/her"

Charles is right but unfortunately it takes two to agree and if you have an ex who won't see sense then you either have to self rep - not easy when you are emotionally fragile OR rely on a solicitor for help.

I think there are things you can do to keep costs down - ie don't waste time and money worrying about the small stuff, don't send a dozen emails a day to your legal representative, don't use them as a shoulder to cry on, don't chase pots of gold at the end of the rainbow ... Also agree to do as much of the leg work as you can yourself - filling in forms etc.

It also helps if you are realistic from the outset ... and if you think about what you NEED rather than what you want. Sometimes I think solicitors are not as clear as they could be about the way assets splits work in practice. If everyone knew the essentials from the start, this would save a LOT of time, money and upset. I do also think that some of the protocols - ie replying to every letter from the "other side" even when they are sending several pointless ones every day - rack up costs and could perhaps be revisited.

I speak as someone whose ex wanted a cash sum equivalent to the value of the FMH (he had overvalued it massively) and to keep his substantial pension even though I had care of three children and a very rocky income. He refused every offer and in the end got what he had been told by the FDR judge was fair - and he had turned down. By then my legal bill was some 30k and his (legal aid) was £20k. His relationship with me and the children was destroyed and we were all exhausted with stress and worry.

I wish wiki had been there at the outset. I really had no clue about the AR process in particular. I wish mediation had been tried - I suggested it to him but he "wanted a judge to decide". In many ways I feel all the to-ing and fro-ing in court and through sometimes vile letters was his way of 'punishing' me although for what I am not sure.
I wish also there was an easier way to claim costs against someone who persists in turning down reasonable offers and racks up huge bills for both parties.

Ultimately I think that if you go the legal route, you need to weigh up the costs involved - financial, emotional and time - and ask yourself if any potential gain is really worth it? You may be financially better off but you can never get that time back and tbh the sooner you can get on with your life the better. I know mine now is a million times better than it was before

Hadenoughnow

Hi All
Thankyou for all your replies. I know how easy it is to read a post and make judgement and take an incorrect view on someones situation. Pete, you are correct it is utter madness certainly not from my side. It is true it should be easy to make a settlement. The problem is when one party doesnt want to play ball and I mean not give 1 penny then the legal process indulges someone that would rather pay tens of thousands of pounds to the legal profession rather than give a spouse and children anything.
There was a recent article in "The Law Society Gazette" an Obiter reporting the "Family Justice System" is in fact "Not a system at all". I couldnt agree more.
I was dragged into this position. I am not recklessly fighting over millions just out of principle or spite.All the money has gone I have lost everything I have ever owned initially just trying to defend myself. All I ever wanted was £60 k to pay off my mortgage. Any normal rational thinking person would have bitten my arm off just to settle. Not my ex. He has a dysfunctional thought process. It seems that if you have the money to pay for endless legal representation the courts, counsel, and solicitors are very happy to oblige no matter what the circumstances. The disproportionality in my case is unbelievable but the circus continues. Unfortunately I am unable to go into detail as my case is ongoing and probably will be for the foreseeable future.
My whole case has grown arms and legs which has all been brought about by my ex. He has made several seperate applications to the court to have the Judge removed from the case one barrister and one solicitor. I know that my case is the talk of the local chambers and solicitors in the region but no one is there to bring an end to it for the sake of my children.
I would certainly recommend mediation to anyone rather than take this route through the courts.

The court process does leave much to be desired but its not the real problem.

The sad fact is in extreme cases you have two people who can`t or wont talk to each other, wont listen to advice from lawyers or even judges, are entrenched in demands, in many ways one or the other or even both become blinkered and only listen to what they want to hear, they just don`t see the big picture.

Over the years wiki has been very lucky to have the help of a number of solicitors and even a couple of barristers, all charged the grand total of £0.00 so its safe to say they are not in family law for the money, in fact family law is one of the lowest paid specialisms, if you want to earn big bucks go for tax law.They all tell similar story`s of clients who refuse to listen, stamp their feet and blindly head off to wage war on the ex, so what can the lawyer do? follow instruction or refuse to act on their behalf, not much of a choice if its your job, sorry i can`t pay my mortgage this month Mr Halifax i had to sack some clients for being idiots, oh not to worry plod home and tell the wife you've taken the moral high ground so we are taking the house back.

If you own a shop do you refuse to sell fags because they are not good for you, if you own a taxi do you refuse to take a half cut bloke to the pub, the fact is we all have rights and choices it how people exercise them that causes problems.

Now for costs, solicitors eh, £250 per hour obscene isn't it, well no, the solicitor doesn't get the £250 per hour nothing like that much, most of it is sucked up in tax overheads rent rates ect, and what does it take to be a legal exec solicitor or barrister, well law degree for starters which can easily cost 40k these days then all the training all the while earning next to nothing, at the end of it all the earn about the same as other professionals with similar qualifications and training.

The sad fact is many people are dragged through court because their ex is unreasonable and unpredictable which is why wiki exists, to try and help for free, for many its helpful especially those who go it alone, for those who can`t solicitors are and will remain the only option.