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Where to draw the line?

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fairtradebananas
Posted by
Senior Member

09 Sep 13 #406689 by fairtradebananas

Topic started by fairtradebananas

I''m in the process of sorting a Separation Agreement (yes, I''m aware they''re not legally binding).

We have agreed childcare during term time of 6 days/8 days in every 14, and 50/50 during school holidays. This works out at 45%/55% approx. I have agreed to pay £230 pcm in maintenance (based on CSA rates).

My stbx has raised an issue of extra costs (Uniforms, school trips, school dinners, haircuts, birthday party presents, subscriptions for clubs, and lessons they may have, phone contracts, and any other necessities), suggesting they should be split equally. Now, I don''t want my children to go without, but I''d like the finances of my stbx and I to be fair too. She earns nearly the same as me, will be in receipt of maintenance of £230, and at a guess around £250-350 in child benefit / tax credits.

It seems she wants everything set in stone, where do I draw the line?

WhiteRose
Moderator

09 Sep 13 #406691 by WhiteRose

Reply from WhiteRose

I think the technical and legal response is that the CM you pay is meant to cover your part of the childrens costs, so ''extras'' as you''ve described do not occur.

However we all know the cost of having kids is not cheap and if you''re able to help out it also maintains a good relationship with your stbx.

Personally I do think a little cooperation and flexibility may help. You could arrange haircuts ''in your time'' occasionally and provide for the school dinners that fall in your time too, maybe.

As for trips, presents, clubs and lessons - it is common to read here that some PWCs sign kids up for all-sorts and expect the NRP to pay up after the kids have been told and commitments have been made - I would say, if you are willing to contribute, that prior to anything being committed to you are consulted and you will see if you''re able to contribute.

A new term usually means a new school uniform, another expense! Rather than give money, you may be able to purchase some of the kit yourself - supermarkets do a great range nowadays of school kit.

If financially you are stuck and are not able to help out, be honest.

I have read where a PWC says to the kids ''Dad can''t afford'' and when kids go to Dads he''s splashing his cash around like there''s no tomorrow, kids then resent Dad that they can''t have X or whatever, which isn''t good, but just because you''re divorcing it doesn''t mean you have to say yes everytime to every request.

In short, I don''t think the extras should be listed out in the agreement, except (if you''re willing) that you are to be consulted prior and would help out as and when.

Sorry - I think I''m in ramble mode

fairtradebananas
Posted by
Senior Member

10 Sep 13 #406790 by fairtradebananas

Reply from fairtradebananas

Thanks WhiteRose,

Now, I''m just struggling how to word a reply which won''t have her flying into a rant about how I don''t want to support our girls.
I know she''ll say that the child maintenance also goes towards putting a roof over their heads.

My planned response is along the lines of :

"Obviously, I’ll provide lunches and birthday party presents when the girls are with me. However, my understanding is that the purpose of child maintenance is to cover my part of the costs you mention. Unofficially of course, I will help if required, but I will not be entering these as part of the agreement.
Our salaries are similar, whilst you will also be in receipt of state benefits such as child benefit and family tax credits"

Any other thoughts from anyone?

happyagain
Platinum Member

10 Sep 13 #406792 by happyagain

Reply from happyagain

I think your response is very fair.
You will have them almost 50% of the time but will be missing out of claiming child benefit and tax credit as you are not the parent with majority care.
Personally, I''d be tempted to inform her that if she is inclined to split the tax credits and child benefit 60/40 with you, then you will consider contributing to the extra costs.

Rumplestiltsk1n
Platinum Member

10 Sep 13 #406819 by Rumplestiltsk1n

Reply from Rumplestiltsk1n

happyagain wrote:

I think your response is very fair.
You will have them almost 50% of the time but will be missing out of claiming child benefit and tax credit as you are not the parent with majority care.
Personally, I''d be tempted to inform her that if she is inclined to split the tax credits and child benefit 60/40 with you, then you will consider contributing to the extra costs.

I agree. If she is willing to give you 45% of the child benefit and work/child tax credits then you will willingly contribute to 50% of all the children''s essential outgoings.

Child Maintenance Options
Moderator

16 Sep 13 #407370 by Child Maintenance Options

Reply from Child Maintenance Options

Hi Fairtradebananas

Thank you for your post. I am William the Child Maintenance Options consultant. Child maintenance is a contribution towards the cost of bringing up a child and this includes not only such items as food and clothing but also it is a contribution towards the home that the child lives in and the associated costs of running that home.

With you and your children''s mother sorting out child maintenance, you may wish to try and make a family-based arrangement. This is where you can agree who will provide what for your children. It can include money and other kinds of support, for example providing child care and clothing. There are no strict rules or formulas that you have to stick to when calculating your payments. Family-based arrangements are not legally binding, however, they can be quick, easy and flexible to change if your circumstances do. You may wish to negotiate with your children''s mother what extra things you will pay for.

We have got useful tools and guide on our website like our family-based arrangement form that is not a legally enforceable document but may put your agreement on a more formal basis. You may also find our Child Maintenance Decision guide: Talking about money helpful. It can help you to work with your children''s mother to agree a suitable arrangement between yourselves. You can print out a copy of these leaflets at www.cmoptions.org.

You may also wish to use our online calculator via the following link: www.cmoptions.org/en/calculator/ to see how much child maintenance you may be requested to pay if you were to use the services of the Child Maintenance Service. You can use this estimated figure as a starting point in making a family-based arrangement.

If you feel a family-based arrangement will not work for you, you still have other options including a statutory child maintenance arrangement with the Child Maintenance Service. They have two schemes available Direct Pay and Collect and Pay. Direct Pay is where they will calculate child maintenance and then leaves you and your children''s mother to agree together how your payments will be made. Once they have calculated the maintenance amount, they will not contact you or your children''s mother again unless circumstances change or if they are told that you have has missed or fallen behind with your payments. Collect and Pay is where they calculate, collect and enforce payments on your children''s mother''s behalf.

The Government plans to introduce costs for using the Child Maintenance Service at some point in the future. There will be three types of costs:

Application fee
Fees for collecting and paying out child maintenance payments
Enforcement charges for paying parents who do not pay.

We do not know the exact amount of these costs yet or when they might be introduced as they still need to be approved by Parliament but the Child Maintenance Service will write to everyone with a case to confirm the exact amount at least a month before they come in.

You can avoid costs by making your own family-based arrangements with your children''s mother. If you try it and it does not work out, you can still apply to the Child Maintenance Service at any stage.

If an application is made with the Child Maintenance Service, your responsibility to pay will start from around the time they contact you. You can find more information about their service online at www.gov.uk/child-maintenance.

If you make an application with the Child Maintenance Service you are legally responsible only for the amount they work out, and are not obliged to pay for anything extra.

If this arrangement is not appropriate or does not work for you, you may wish to consider a Consent Order. This is an official ruling made by a court. You and your children''s mother agree together how much maintenance needs to be paid and how often before going to court. This type of arrangement usually happens when you are going to court for other reason, such as arranging a divorce or dividing assets. Consent Orders can be costly as fees for solicitors and court costs may apply. Legal Aid will not cover these costs if you are only going to court to obtain a Consent Order for maintenance. You may wish to look at the following link: find-legal-advice.justice.gov.uk/ in order to find a mediator in your area.

There is a Sorting out separation web-app on this website at www.wikivorce.com/divorce/Sorting-Out-Separation.html that you may find useful as it offers help and support to separated families.

To find out more about how Child Maintenance Options can help you visit www.cmoptions.org or call us free on 0800 988 0988 between 8am and 8pm Monday to Friday or 9am and 4pm on Saturday.

I hope this helps.

William

fairtradebananas
Posted by
Senior Member

17 Sep 13 #407456 by fairtradebananas

Reply from fairtradebananas

As much as I appreciate that someone from CMO reads the forum at all, is there really any point in copying and pasting the same answer every time?

The only message that seems to get hammered home is ''make a family based arrangement'' (even if that''s what is already being done).

There seems to be zero consideration given to anyone''s individual circumstances - perhaps they''re just preparing us for what it''s like, in case we ever have to deal with them in the future?

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Moderators: wikivorce team, rubytuesday, dukey, hadenoughnow, Tets, Shezi, Linda Sheridan, Forseti, Mitchum, WhiteRose, Lostboy67, WYSPECIAL, Bubblegum11

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