negative contribution

Hi,
I have been a guest here for a number of weeks and thought it was time to stop the eavesdropping and come out of the shadows. I am so encouraged by the strength of so many people who have contributed, poured out their hearts their questions and by their resilience and survival.

Some context first of all seems appropriate. I have been breadwinner, homemaker and carer thoughout our long marriage- 26 years. we have three childen - grownups now all over 18- just! but all still at home and studying for crucial exams this year. A2s, finals and a masters. STBX - (I even have the jargon) abuses alcohol and emotionally abuses all of us - and for the last 13 years had made no attempt to work and has made no financial contribution but has squandered a significant inheritance on holidays for himself etc. I could go on but not much point.

Our FDA is next week. In his form E he claims he has made equivalent but different contributions - this is so untrue. I am desperate to reach a settlement ASAP because the environment is such a hateful nightmare - he won't be persuaded to live elsewhere for the interim and sake of the children. Although I have spoken to police I really don't want to go for an occupation order in case it fails because then he will so flaunt it at us and taunt us in a way that it would be intolerable and fuel his abuse still further. Our home equity is 300K and my CETV £600K. I am so close to retirement (4 years). I could raise 100K ( enough for a good 1 or 2 bed flat motgage free for him) rather than 150K, in order for me to secure our home even if only for the next 4 years when our youngest has finished her uni.I have read a little about Mesher??? agreements would this be possible? I will struggle to take on addtional mortgage of more. The children are so hurt and angry that they say they never want to see him again when this is all over. I hope that their relationship will repair but know that if he drives too hard a bargain he will lose them for ever. Painful as it is I accept that he is going to get an undeserved, in my view, big slice of the cake but my problem is I need this to happen NOW. Next year is too late for the kids if their exams are ruined and to try to sell and move home this year will have such a detrimental affect. My solicitor advises that conduct is too difficult to argue becuase it has to show affect on finances but negative contribution can be argued.

I would love to hear from anyone who can share their experience or knowledge on how this argument of negative contribution might work out, do I need to prove that he has made no equivalent contrbiution for at least half of our marriage? what might I do to encourage him to make me a proposal I am so desperate I would consider almost anything. I imagine from what I have read that this is unlikely to be sorted at our FDA so how can I do anything to get an early date for the FDR?-

If you are still here thankyou for reading and well done if you can make any sense of my ramblings.

Thanks.

timetogo,

Welcome to wiki. You have my sympathy - your story is similar to mine except fortunately my ex did have a substantial pension from the time before he gave up work ..... The argument about negative contribution didn't get me anywhere really .. but in my case at least he had something to put into the pot - the pension was largely accrued premarriage.I guess if he had been able to argue that he had contributed equally it is possible the judge would have left the pension out of the equation - or at least a proportion of it..

Unfortunately, galling though it is, when you married you made a few promises that will be coming back to haunt you now ... That one about all my worldly goods etc is particularly pesky!

You are in exactly the same position as a male breadwinner with a non working wife ...

Having said that, there are two aspects to the way the finances are settled. The first is needs, the second contributions.

Look at www.wikivorce.com/divorce/Divorce-Financ...to-calculate-a-fair- financial-settlement.html

This sets out what is considered when assets are divided on divorce.

There is case law to support you retaining a property with space for children at University - and I guess that if they are at Uni but living at home that argument would be further strengthened.

His "need" is for a one bed property ... you say 100k would cover that ..

What about his income? Does he have any pension pot? If he does not then he will be entitled to share yours ... although the fact that you are close to retirement may well be a factor in all this. It could be that the lump sum you are due could be counted as a cash asset and the residue as income ... Have you had a recent statement of pension benefits? Depending on the type of scheme, the CETV could well undervalue it... but the tax free lump sum is 25% of the pot so at least 150k ....could this be used to help you secure a larger mortgage?

I very much doubt you would be able to keep 66% of the house and ALL of your pension ...

If you want wikipeeps to give you an idea of what a fair settlement could be, you need to tell us the following:

Ages
Length of marriage + pre marriage cohab
Children - ages, genders and arrangements for them (nights with each parent)
Incomes (inc Tax credits etc if applicable)
FMH Value and outstanding mortgage + size of FMH
Value of other assets in sole of joint names - savings, shares, endowments
Pensions - CETVS
Liabilities in sole or joint names - loans, debts etc

Hadenoughnow

Hi and thanks so much for such a comprehensive reply. I am almost resigned to the "my worldy goods" bit but still feel angry that unlike a non working wife who presumably cared for children, home and does the cooking cleaning etc I am the breadwinner and also do the things a non working wife might do including paying for childcare. However I'd be thrilled with 100K to him for the house and 60% of my pension. Iguess that is wishful thinking. I am encouraged however by the information about maintaining the family home whislt children are still at uni. The info you suggested goes as follows

Ages Both 56
Length of marriage 26 + pre marriage cohab 4 (OMG!)
Children - ages, genders and arrangements for them (nights with each parent)F 18 M 20 F 23. 7 nights with me they wish no contact with father. (how sad is that) All studying from home
Incomes (inc Tax credits etc if applicable) Mine pa is 60K gross Net 44K his negligible £100pcm I think - but presumambly once divored he might be entitled to benefit
FMH Value 380K and outstanding mortgage 60K + size of FMH 6 bed though one is for music- (uni studies)
Value of other assets in sole of joint names - savings, shares, endowments - bits only £3k
Pensions - CETVS 600K final salary scheme Him bits one annuity in payment hence income above.
Liabilities in sole or joint names - loans, none but there will be solicitors to pay and he has certainly instructed a very expensive firm. How ? goodness only knows. Hope this is of help.

Regarding the CETV I have tried so hard to get my head round it al and have read so much on this site. I am beginning to grasp the reason for the CETV being an undervaluation but doesn't that also work I his favour becuse the actual pot would beeven bigger or can it be argued that as a a future income stream he will only need say 40% to provide an acceptable income.

I am sure that without the negative contribution argument I am in a lose lose situation but thanks again for any response. Just being able to articulate all these worries is such a help.

timetogo

I would love to be able to tell you that he will only get 100k and 40% of your pension. (and I know only too well the story about paying for childcare etc etc .. that happened here too)

However I think you need to prepare yourself for a worst case scenario of 50:50 of everything and work back from there.

Half of the equity in the FMH is about 150k once costs of sale have been taken out. 100k is just over 30%. I would guess that if you can raise it somehow (interest only mortgage until your lump sum comes through?), paying him pretty much half the value of the house may mean you could bargain a bit on the pension? You would need to demosntrate that he can buy somewhere suitable on the cash you will give him.

The real value of the pension to him will depend to an extent on whether he is able to have a pension share within your scheme or if the money has to be taken out and invested in a private pension.

There are options other than pension share .. such as earmarking - where he has a proportion of the pension income paid to him. There is stuff about this in the wiki library.

In the meantime (before any pension kicks in) I am afraid there is every chance he would be able to claim spousal maintenance from you .. although a court may see that he has earning capacity and expect him to get a job .. The thing is they don't like people being on benefits if there is an alternative ..

My advice to you would be to get a barrister's opinion on your situation asap once you have full financial disclosure. A local barrister will know the courts and judges well and will have a feel for how this may be settled if it did go all the way to a final hearing.

Be aware that it is very easy to rack up ridiculous costs arguing the toss about the small stuff .. in my case my bill was nearly 30k and my ex (on legal aid) spent £20k. I would say that a barrister's opinion, a sensible open offer and if he refuses to be reasonable, fast track to Final Hearing is a very good plan.

If you look at my profile you will find my blog about what happened at my FH .. different story in some ways to yours but it will give you an idea.

Hadenoughnow