His complicated finances delaying

Hello everyone,

I'm 13 months into a divorce and he will only move out of FMH he says ''when legally obligated to do so'' He spends most of his days in his bedroom that grows ever more cluttered and filthy. That's where all the financial docs etc are stored in skip like conditions. I have supplied my solictor with photos of his room to demonstrate that it's nay impossible for me to access any necessary documentation for the divorce, so she asked him to supply all what was needed, except he didn't, and still delaying after FAH that took place a year after I filed, and 7 months after granting on Decree Nisi.

My GP said that it must be a nightmare for me - understatement or what!

He's 62, took early retirement, got a big lump sum figure currently unknown, and a grand a month works pension.

I'm 54 and work 10 hrs a week as a cleaner just to pay my legal fees. filed on Unreasonable behaviour grounds - 15 years worth.

One daughter of the marriage aged 15.

Had my Decree Nisi since Feb 08.

He has 2 large bank loans that he took out in his own name, and only through filing for divorce did their existence become known to me.

One loan in his sole name he took out same week as Decree Nisi. Can he do that?

He stated on his form E that whilst the loans were in his sole name they were ''marital loans'' (a lie as I have never benefitted a penny and didn't know about the loans at all), and he is asking the court to order me to pay half of them, can he do that?

4 months before I filed for divorce he received an early retirement lump sum I suspect of around 70k. I found out after the FAH the figure that's probably related to his lump sum by doing some digging.

His solictor wrote to mine last Dec to say that his client was sorting out his finances, but that wasn't the case.

In the end we had to go to court Sept 08. I was kept in dark about the financial figure he'd received, and the joint account statements it was paid into that I never saw. However a bank statement for this account did arrive a couple of weeks ago, and being perplexed I rang the bank to see if this account had always shown NIL balance and they told me that it had 70k in it Nov 06 and was transfered by degrees into accounts in his own name by the following May renderering the account back to NIL.

He was asked to disclose all bank statements for the last 12 months as I said to my solicitor that he hides the statements in his chaotic bedroom that he's turned into a dirty bed-sit in last 13 months.

He did not disclose last 12 months worth for any of the accounts, and did not mention this particular account with the 70k in it at all on his Form E. However I did notice that he had disclosed 3 statements for this account, time period 5 months after this money was gone.

Had he disclosed last 12 mth bank statements for this particular account it would have shown the 70k and all transfers by him to his sole name accounts. So he supplied 3 statements for this account after money had been transfered to his sole name accounts showing NIL balance. And whilst my solicitor wasn't happy his solicitor just jogged along with all not putting pressure on his client to comply it would seem. Hence court, and that Questionnaire. He ended up with 23 questions to answer.

I got all the statements from bank showing the 70k and the transfers he'd made into his sole named accounts and sent them to my solicitor, copying in senior partner. What is likely to happen now I have supplied physical evidence of these statements to my solicitor as I asked in my letter ''was Respondent only one in court at FAH who knew about the history of this bank account not mentioned on Form E and only 3 statements supplied to my solicitor? Either his solicitor knows what I now know, or he doesn't? Either way it looks bad on them don't you think?

I didn't say for my side to tell otherside that I knew all the details of the 70k and the transfering out to his own accounts, but for my side just to ask otherside if they were happy it was a full and frank disclosure they gave on Form E and at FAH.

One solicitor on-line I put this matter to said it was not lying on Form E as I suggested it to be, but an omission, that sometimes people forget, or it was negligent. How can you forget you have 70k in an account that you spend 5 months just prior to me filing for divorce, shifting it in large clumps to own account so joint account was back to NIL?

Amnesia of that magnitude Mr. Solicitor, I think not do you??!! But whilst I don't go with that feedback, it does give us some idea of the protection these types of swindling Respondents can expect!

Would he have forgotton he had 70k if say I had done same thing with money as he had done or would I be taken to the cleaners, or put under the Patio?

Will my honesty and full disclosure and meeting deadlines ever bear judicial rewards?

He has done the opposite without punishment or penalties, and my guess is that he'll use some acceptable loophole to explain why he didn't disclose this bank account's financial history and get away with it again. Do you think that's likely?

the court gave instruction at the FAH that the FMH be valued by agent appointed by otherside by 13th Oct 08, but that deadline has gone and whilst I informed my solicitors immediatly that I did not mind which agent did the task, the deadline has been passed. No agent has ever been and we are nearly in November. He rang his solicitor when I told him it was a joint instruction, but ultimetly it was him who got to choose which agent did the valuing. He rang and left a message with his solicitor's secretary to say either one, then went on holiday half an hour later. I doubt he has confirmed in writing like I did to mine, but hey he's doesn't care and seemingly neither do the lawyers. I have only control over what I do nobody else.

He had 23 questions on his Questionnaire and my solicitor told me at court that he was now 'bound by the court to answer the questions' - however I received a letter inviting me to accept the FMH and the mortgage and Clean Break settlement as long as I did not idemnify him. I refused as that would have meant in reality taking less than 50% and I have financially dependent child. My solicitor said worse case scenario I would receive half the net assets - but my ex to be wants me to agree to a settlement prior to his full financial disclosure. Are they all mad?

Also I know that if I had taken that offer he would not have had to deal with answering the Questionnaire. (''If your wife accepts this offer, we then don't have to deal with answering the Questionnaire'') See how short changed the law is willing to let us have? Yes, I bet he was peed off that I refused and now scurrying trying to answer some awkwark questions - tough.

He is so angry about not having 'bought me off' that he's answering the Questionnaire and factoring in to the responses stuff such as ''she did this'' all stuff that happened 12 years ago and demonstrating anger. slagging my solicitor off, and calling some of the questions ''stupid'' and ''getting tired of them'' (yes, I can't help but take a peek at what he's scribing in angry mode from his bedroom. And how the plot is going between him and the firm representing him and firing nasty letters at me. I am studying the enemy - military tactics. How I am keeping my cool?

Can he drag up conduct when I feel it's a smoke screen to continue to talk about anything and everything else but finances?

I didn't drag up anything, I just answered my 2 Questions and stuck to finances.

He won't move out, and he's still here 13 months after I filed for divorce. I was ordered to go and have a medical to determin my future employability prospects as only work 10 hours a week. Anone else had an ex to be have them undergo a medical report 5 years off retirement?

I'm almost 55 years old, and my doctor says that at the moment 10 hrs is enough as am only eligible for manual labour as brought up kids and worked part time whilst he pursued a career, good salary

He may be 62 but he ran an office that dealt in compiling and processing evidence for courts and meeting deadlines. He's not just your 'average' clueless 62 year old that doesn't understand the disclosure expectations he's failed to supply.

I face 2nd Christmas with him in the house. I will have had a Decree Nisi for 10 months by then - will the law ever see that this situation is untenable and obligate him to move out?

He bought himself a 3 bedroomed caravan at a holiday park about 2 years ago, and owns 50% of a house in Ireland that he rents out. I have no other properties, a low wage, and limited savings.

My doctor says my semi ex has a goal it seems to leave me penniless and to give all finances to lawyers and court fees forever and ever amen. Does the law allow this situation as lawyers are lining their pocket so not going to be sad for me are they?

Or does it say ''enough's enough'' after 13 months of nightmare suffering and say - ''leave the property Mr. Misleading the Court/Delay person within a month say?''

My FDR is first week of December - what can I expect to happen? He seems to have got away with so much in past 13 months, spending money like crazy, holidays and showering our daughter with endless gifts, things she really doesn't need. Maybe to ensure there's nothing left in his personal savings/own name accounts. My solicitor wrote to me after court to say that worse case scenario I would receive half net assets, but he's trying to make himself purposely poor win sympathy with the court so he doesn't have the ready means to move out. Just left with poor chap with only one thousand pounds a month works pension syndrome?

They may say well you have this asset and this policy, but it's not ready available cash, all tied up, and only your works pension and you poor man you are almost broke now. That's what I fear and that will put my freedom back and back and I'll end up with a breakdown.

My nightmare is that he will continue living in FMH and I will never be free, and if I am to be really free, then how?

Sorry to go on about it all as you all have your own crosses to bear, but I need to find more hope of freedom prospects than I have at the moment.

Really stressed, my GP has said for over a year that it must be a nightmare for me - too right it is!

Seeking to share support

Sanity saving mission now - any suggestions?

Jolly

I can understand your frustration but the courts usually concentrate on reaching a settlement rather than punishments, although there are penalties in costs. Stick with it.

Just one small point about your retirement. If you are 55 now you have 8 years before reaching state pensionable age. From 2010 the age of women retiring increases gradually to to bring us in line with men.

Jolly,

If you have a daughter of 15 together, this is a long marriage. The presumed start point is a 50:50 split of ALL assets. Remember that the financial split has nothing to do with why the marriage broke down or the grounds for the divorce. If he drags up conduct he will just look daft. The ONLY time conduct really matters is in the very rare cases where one party had say, physically damaged the other and rendered them incapable of earning a living. His solicitor should be advising him NOT to do this….but unfortunately this sort of behaviour increases their earnings from the client……

The assets of the marriage are JOINT – no matter whose name they are in.

Presumably he has disclosed ownership of things like the caravan and its value? If he owns 50% of a house in Ireland, that too is a joint asset and should go into the pot. Have you been given valuations for these assets? Where did he get the money for them? Have you been told the extent of the bank loans?

If you have evidence – such as the bank statements showing the lump sum, it will need to be disclosed to the other side.

Have a look at section 25 of the 1973 Matrimonial Causes Act. This sets out what is considered when a financial split takes place.

You both need housing. You need a big enough place for you and your daughter so at least two bedrooms. His NEED could be a one – two bed place depending on the contact arrangements. The question is how the assets may be divided to fund a property apiece and to provide an income. You need to have a look at the local housing market – try rightmove.com to work out how much appropriate properties may cost. Don’t forget that at 62 he would be able to get sheltered accommodation for over 55s, which is often cheaper and can be available via shared ownership schemes.

How big is the FMH?? What is it worth in your view? How much is the mortgage. Would you realistically be able to take it on singlehanded with just 10 hours work a week? Are there other ways to boost your income – ie lodgers via the rent a room scheme – you can have tax free earnings of about 4.5k from this. Are you claiming tax credits in your own right as you are separated? It does not matter that you are still living in the same property.

How much do you want/need to stay there?? If it really is untenable, could you and your daughter move out? Have you investigated whether you would get help with say Housing Benefit?

I think it is time you took control of the situation – you have already gone out and got the bank statements etc so you know you can . Add up ALL the assets you know off – with estimates if necessary of things like FMH value … include everything – you mentioned policies – are there any? If you have reasonable evidence to show he has these assets, it will be up to him to prove he does not – and explain what he has done with them.

Then have a look at what you NEED – see above re housing – and work out what percentage of the joint assets you NEED to cover that. Look then at whether he has enough to fund his NEED. It does not matter if these are not apparently immediately liquid assets.

He should be paying 15% of his net income in child maintenance – if necessary you may have to apply to the CSA (or its successor body) for this. Do you know his total income? What does he have coming in apart from the pension…. You mentioned rental from the place in Ireland. Is there any reason why he could not work part time if necessary to boost his income?

If you do have enough cash assets to buy you each a small property, that makes life a bit simpler. If you do not, then things get a bit harder. Your child should take priority.. at least until she is 18 or leaves full time education.

You will need to come up with a settlement offer before the FDR. Clearly you need financial disclosure to do that…. or to have a fair idea of his finances. You can make an offer based on your best guesstimate if needs be …. taking into account funding your needs and those of your daughter FIRST.

If he persists in refusing to answer questions and raising irrelevant issues that just rack up costs, he runs the risk of a finding of litigation misconduct and a costs order. These are hard to get but it would be worth your solicitor reminding him of the consequences of refusing to play nicely.

Judges have seen all this before. They are not easily fooled. His behaviour will not endear him to the court. But the hard fact is that to meet your needs, you can only divide the assets you actually have between you …. and not those he may have frittered away .

If and when you have more financial info, do feel free to post it for some more advice. See DL's post "read this before you post" at the top of property and mortgages for details of what we would need to know.

Hadenoughnow

Thanks for that. Hope to God my divorce will be over by 2010 when the new retirement age comes in.

yes, he's frittered most of it away at a guess. Still waiting for full financial disclosure from him.

I was told by my solicitor to go into private rented if the situation was that bad, but all my savings would have gone by now. My bank said that my solicitor's suggestion that I check out a mortgage was laughable on a wage of £239 per month.

Mum died and left me some money, not enough to buy anywhere else though. The local housing said it was too much to entitle me to bid for social housing, but did try them. The only option was to go for rented property costing about £400-£500 per month and my financial advisor at my bank said that would soon see all my savings dissapear and not a good idea.

The sum of money mother left me would disqualify me from benefit entitlements at the moment. I have enough at moment to pay off the mortgage on FMH and if I did that it would reduce my savings to almost zero so would be entitled - if state allowed me to pay off mortgage as couldn't take on the mortgage and pay installments, only to pay it all off (30k)

I gave my solicitors the bank statements showing the existence of 70k in Nov 06 - what they will do with that info evidence I can't say at the moment as had no feedback. If I were his solicitor I'd be asking him why he'd not mentioned this evidence on Form E before I discovered the evidence and maybe via my solicitors pointed that fact out.

Yes, I think it will be a guesstimate - and want as part of the settlement that he move out, but he's done nothing to find anywhere, and I keep having this re-occuring nightmare that I will be trapped with him here forever. If I got my absolute now, in law I'd be free to re-marry, but who has ever heard of the new spouse coming to live in a home where the ex still resides?

His pension is a thousand pounds a month. He took out a bank loan to buy the house in Ireland with his sister, on a buy to let. He's almost finished paying off that loan with Bank of Ireland. No idea what rent they are getting.

he's been asked to disclose who is in the house, what the rental is, and to provide tennancy agreement, and his tax accounts (he has no tax accounts, that bit I know as he says on his Form E that he may have to seek advise in Ireland on this matter - no disclosure from him sufficiently to give you info. House in Ireland valued at 175.000.00 euros.

2 endowment policies valued at over 20k

where did he get the money to put down as deposit on caravan. That question asked by my solicitor - no reply from him. I suspect it was out of the 70k.

I dare not approach the financial issues too much with him as last time I did he became aggressive, said he was going to phone someone to get me sectioned, and at that point I rang the police.

Thanks

Jolly

I dare not approach the financial issues too much with him as last time I did he became aggressive, said he was going to phone someone to get me sectioned, and at that point I rang the police.

Jolly,

As there are solicitors involved, it is probably best to talk through them if he is going to behave like this with face to face negotiations.

If he is that bad, have you talked to your solicitor about getting a non-molestation order and maybe an occupation order? That would get him out of the house.

I am sure other wikipeeps can advise you better on this one.

Hadenoughnow

Hi Jolly,
I cannot even start to imagine the nightmare that you are going through.
You are right he will not move out unless he is made to do so.I have read about none lolestaion order,can you get one of these.
Who ordered you to have a medical?
My x2b has threatened to do this as he knows that I will be applying for maintenance.
It is sad that when we are left something by our parents that is supposed to help us just turn out to do the complete opposite.This divorce thing is making me look at things in totally different lights to what I did 1-2yrs ago.
You be strong,you got a lot in your favour,see it to the end.
good luck

Thanks hadenoughnow,

Yes talked to my solicitor, but she just writes a letter to otherside. She'd go for non-molestation order if he assaulted me again but can't do that for emotional stuff that is drainign me, and stupid shenanigans of threatening to get me sectioned that led me to calling police - daughter crying and hysterical. Police did not take any drastic action, he said that it was all in the hands of the lawyers, and that he said what he said as he was drawing on a reference from a psychiatric report on my mental health - I have never seen a shrink in my entire life by the way. The police either believed or didn't but just left.

In short my GP was horrified and offered to write a medical report for me to support, but my solicitor said it would be costly so declined. In August my ex to be blew up again, and said that my life was over - got scary, no assault, just yelling, and I went to the police to make a statement. They were clueless and asked if I would like them to come out to speak with him, and I said ''Yes''. I think that happened - I wasn't at home at the time, but he was acting really weird the day the police offered to come round. I was purposely out, but his behaviour was bizzare, well more bizzare than usual.

I've done everything in my entire power - I cannot make him disclose. I cannot make my solicitor go for a non-molestation as it's not apparently serious enough. He is turning his bedroom into a filthy fire hazzard, I gave my solicitor photos - she's not bothered.

I had a call from domestic violence unit a couple of weeks ago and updated them, and said I'd been to court since we last spoke. Chap said, let me know how second hearing goes. I told him about discovering 70k in a joint account that had vanished into his own accounts. Domestic Violence unit spokesperson said ''You're joking?!''

I am being held to randsome by a delaying non finanicially disclosing Respondent who refuses to move out, spending all he can, and leaving only one joint account with any money in it for me to use for food.

If I told you that this joint bank account has a permenent overdraft, or little money in it the whole time you'd believe me. He keeps the bulk of money in his accounts in his sole name, then transfers a trickle for me, and even then I don't get lucky and my joint bank account plastic card at the supermarket is rejected - humiliation time or what?

I knew when I filed for divorce he'd be just as I suspected. Most normal people move out and sort it out when they have funds, and he has money but he chose to buy God knows what and a 3 bedroomed caravan 100 miles away. because in his view all his money is his and when people are greed driven, then they get nasty if you try to talk to them. He's become aggressive to deter me talking about finances, then accused me of provoking him - nothing you've not heard before.

Had I not filed for divorce then he would have left me with such a financial nightmare if he'd have died, and I needed to know what to do if that event occurred - I guess such people imagine they are 'death proof'. If I got sick he'd become more cruel to me, and with my senior years upon me I couldn't go on any more, so going to have to let the judicial system beat the financial knowledge out of him.

Thanks for being there

Jolly