How to tell my kids we have separated

Hi Supers

I can fully understand the ambivalence you must have felt while reading my post.

I've been reading a number of threads on WikiV, trying to get some insight into how people cope with imminent divorce where children are involved. I don't think there is one magic answer, as every relationship is individual, so every solution must be individual, too.

I won't pretend my partner and I are particularly proud of how our actions have impacted on an otherwise innocent man - 'victim' isn't too harsh a word, in the circumstances, and we hate the potential damage that has already been done to the children. She tries her best to keep things as normal as possible, and minimise to the greatest possible extent any impact on the time she has with her boys. I fully understand her husband's anger, but he seems to have no insight into the way he took her for granted (she says) for over a decade.

His position? He wants her to move out of the house and live with me (great for me - not so great for the children) and return each day to do the housework! The notion of putting the needs of the children first seems to be entirely alien to him. We can only hope that, as time goes on, he will realise his 'plan' is unworkable. Ironically, my partner is quite happy to share parenting (and I support her in this: however bad his reactions, her husband is still the father of her children).

It seems to me that, for your part, you are looking at things in the round. In the words of the famous war poster 'Keep Calm And Carry On'. The world has changed, and fathers are showing themselves capable of taking on responsibilities in more equal measure. It sounds to me as though you will be up to this, and there have been some great posts with ideas on how you can strengthen your case.

I'm sure, when you do find the moment to broach the subject with your children, you'll find the words to express how you love them, and will play your part in their lives as an equal parent.

Best wishes

H

HarryMcF

I wanted to start by saying I think it is a very brave thing to come onto a site like this and be one of the few people who admit they are the 'baddy' for lack of a better phrase in a marital breakdown.

You and your partner are right, you should not be proud of the approach you took. I think you both need to be a bit cautious when you make a statement like, "The notion of putting the needs of the children first seems to be entirely alien to him." From his perspective you and his ex certainly did not put the needs of the children first, you put your own 'wants' first. You and your partner have each other for emotional support combined with romance, he does not. Don't expect him to be at the same point you are at, it will take him much longer.

My ex-wife also claims she was taken for granted and that is why she embarked on her affair. That is her perspective. Mine is considerably different, I loved her and did my best to show it.

If both parties don't work at a marriage it is inevitable that boredom can set in. It is not necessarily an acrimonious environment, just lonely with not enough communication. The trouble is people presume that boredom is caused by the environment that they are in (the other person) rather than something inside themselves. Once that stage is reached a marriage can still be saved or at least the potential to try to make it work still exists. They have to recognise it and talk to the other person about it. Once a third party becomes involved that opportunity is lost forever.

You and your partner made the decision for you, her ex and the children, don't expect them to be supportive of that decision as it is not what they wanted. You and your partner need to take ownership for that decision and the fallout.

I am not suprised that your partner's ex wants her out. Would you be happy to have another man living in your relationship?

Personally I feel his position and approach is interesting. Indeed it will probably be easier that she move out and return to keep up the house than him having to live under the same roof with her when she is in love with you. I presume he will continue to play his role as a provider. It cannot of course be the long term solution.

I am also unclear about what you mean by, "Ironically, my partner is quite happy to share parenting (and I support her in this: however bad his reactions, her husband is still the father of her children)."

Your ex already shares parenting and always has. They are not her children any more than they are his children. They are 'the children'.

I hope I am not coming across to harsh HarryMcF and want to once again say I admire your bravery and honesty about your role. You and your partner have placed a terrible pain on others. If you want to show some moral fibre then both of you need to stop justifying your/her actions and instead help the transition. That means giving him the benefit of the doubt and generally looking at it from his perspective until he can catch up emotionally and make the break. If you can do that you will go a very long way towards a happy (or at least tolerable) ending for everyone.

respectfully, Perry

Hi perrypower

I don't feel particularly brave about joining this debate from a different perspective (but I'm hesitating to seem to divert this thread from it's original topic).

You are right that it's important to try to see the situation we (my partner and I) have created from the point of view of her husband. I know it's far easier for me to look at things from a so-called 'rational' perspective, and believe me I can understand why any man faced with what he is facing should feel devastation.

And you are probably right that it is wrong of me to suggest he has no insight into how the situation has come about. My only knowledge of what he thinks is mediated through his wife.

At the same time, I was struck by how supers had managed - against the odds, perhaps - to step back from the horrible situation he is in and to think first and foremost about the needs of his children. Yes, it could be argued that when my partner and I first met we weren't thinking about their needs - but that's an easy assumption.

It was wrong of me to use this thread to try to gain an understanding of how a parent could use their children against their partner. But I appreciate the difficulties everyone faces when someone is unfaithful to their marriage, and the role that the 'third party' has in this.

Thanks, perrypower.

HarryMcF

As we've had some good input about telling kids I'd just like to remind anyone who's reading this topic about telling kids, please do continue to add your comments, experiences or advice, and I will respond ...

...
I also want to comment on the second debate.

Perry is articulating the anger about our partners actions in putting their wants above the family needs by committing adultery. It's taken me a whole year to be like this so I might appear to be coping very well but not without a considerable cost to myself - a year of fear and pain and heartbreak. But I have managed not to actually do anything 'bad' out of anger to primarily to protect my kids innocence but also just in case she changed her mind. I have been very angry and bitter with them both for putting themselves before me and my kids needs, and as perry says, making their own decision for my family - its would never have been my choice or my kids choice. Very selfish. It is the new man that has screwed me up for most of that year as without him in the equation the boys welfare would be clearly number one priority and the breakdown might have been a lot easier to bear, but its taken me a year to be able to even think as clearly as it seems I can now.

One point I'm particularly glad you acknowledge Harry is that everything you have hear about her husband is from her and as perry says, the truth is almost certainly different, if there is such a thing as 'the' truth ... and even if it exists, does it matter? ... as it is what each person feels that drives their actions in the breakdown, and clearly there are complete disagreements between parties in a divorce.

There are a lot of words spoken in all our breakdowns but it is actions that count. I see my stbxs actions as immoral and illegal and disrespectful towards me and my boys, and I suspect part of my boys will hate her forever when they truly understand her actions - that is the only lasting price for her. My own pain no longer has any effect on her.

The emotional damage is just so sad - as adults we have to cope and bear it and get over it so I try and keep the focus on the kids as they are not equipped to protect themselves, we both still have to do that for them as no-one else can - that's our final joint responsibility.

supers

Back to the kids.

Thanks perry for your excellent advice a few posts ago - with the A4 diary and getting to all down on paper.
I had started doing this but have slacked off so your post has given me fresh impetus to start again.
You are so right, what I need to do is actually live the life of looking after the kids and make sure i can do it while working.

What was happening was that my stbx didn't like it at all as I was stepping on her toes - this makes it harder as I am trying to keep the peace bwetween us at home so it is tolerable, but I must keep going.

And I know I must strike up a relationship with the kids friends parents too. This is harder as she does all the organising at home during the day and is close friends with so many mums. It is hard for dads to break into this whole scenario of the mums running the kids lives as most of us dads work full time but theres no reason why it can't work and as you say, the high divorce rate and changing gender roles makes this more common.

thanks again

supers

Hi there

My personal advice would be not to stay in this situation any longer. You must be finding it incredibly hard to keep it all together and, although your children are not yet aware you are intending to separate, like you say they are aware something isnt right, and being more perceptive than we sometimes grant them credit for, I feel the children will not benefit by you staying in this situation longer than necessary.

You are implying that you need to wait for your wife's lover to sell his FH in order to be in a position to accommodate your wife and children. I am sorry, but your children are not his responsibility and your wife will get legal help by way of family tax credits and (if she were to get a job for 16 hours per week) working tax credits too. If she cannot find a job she will qualify for income support and job seeker's allowance. You are within your rights to put the house on the market and whilst you are waiting for the house to be sold, your wife would also be entitled to some form of housing benefit (not sure if its called that) to pay towards the mortgage. You are then free to move out into rented accommodation until your house is sold and you receive a percentage of any equity that may be due to you, in order for you to purchase again. You will need to pay your wife maintenance (if you go on the CSA website you can work out how much using their on line calculator).

Its a difficult time for all of you but not an impossible situation to move on from and, if you keep your frustration and any bitterness towards your wife and her lover under wraps for the sake of your sons, you will come through this eventually and, one day, your happiness will come.

Good luck, you have a difficult path ahead but there is light at the end of the tunnel, and judging by the place you are in now it'll be a lot lot sunnier there.

Hope this helps

LL x

Thanks LL, appreciate your reply.

I am sure that my boys don't know how bad the situation is and think we are just not getting on as well as we used to. We play happy families pretty well. Given that premise, staying together is prolonging a normal and happy home life for them which is of course my first choice. Yes I know it is a lie, but a white one and I believe in their best interests for now. However as I come around to acceptance and being able to tell them we can then include them in the decisions we take, and not make assumptions about what they want. I also want to be able to give them a positive vision of what life will be like with me, and my stbx, after we split so I/we have to create that first.
Yes I find it hard to live her at times (when she's here) but it is my choice to stay with my kids in my home for as long as possible. It sounds like you assume that is not the case, but thanks for pointing out the practical option which I can always take.

I know I don't need to wait for him to provide for my family, but I will certainly lose out financially if I move out and leave them the house. Although I gladly take full responsibility for my children, I don't feel the duty to do the same for my stbx although legally I will be paying SM. Morally that's his job now, but it's not quite working out that way, and probably will not. They are in a strong position if they want to take advantage, at my emotional cost. Which is how its been for the past year. But of course morals don't count with them, or in the law.

Thanks for your support, I certainly get stronger with every message as I have to try and justify staying - and this is getting harder.

supers