Fair Settlement?

Hi everyone, I'm new here and at the very beginning of the divorce process i.e. we've accepted that it has to happen and are discussing the finances and practicalities.

I'm curious to know what forum members think of the proposed settlement.

We've been married just over 5.5 years but had problems for the last 2.5 years. It'll be a non-contested DIY divorce.

We have approx £220k equity in our house with 20k of joint debt. My husband brought £75k into the marriage from a previous property sale.

He works f/t (salary c. £76k), I work p/t (salary c.£15k) We both have company pensions, his being substantially larger than mine.

We have no children together but one each from previous relationships. My 8-yr-old son lives with us, his 11-yr-old daughter is with his ex.

My husband has made an initial offer of a 50/50 equity split, after taking out his £75k. This would give me about £72k and him £147k.

The practical solution is for him to stay in the family home and remortgage. I would relocate out of London where property is less expensive and find f/t work.

Having done some research on sites like this one, it appears that I may be additionally entitled to spousal maintenance(?) and a percentage of his pension (to boost mine presumably?)

It's all very confusing. I want to maintain an amicable position and I'm unsure about my "right" to make demands other than equity split, since I didn't bring anything to the marriage financially. At the same time, I have my son and our future to consider and don't want to sell myself short.

I know there's no definitive answer in divorce settlements but any advice would be appreciated.

ps - forgive me if this thread appears elsewhere. I originally thought I'd submitted it this morning but it doesn't appear to have shown up on the forum anywhere - I was probably a IT numpty and hit cancel instead!

Hi MJJ
Welcome to wikivorce. Messy business, this finance malarky!

Fair is a tricky concept, as you and he are coming at this from very different angles.

If the finances were to be settled in court, then the judge would be considering a variety of factors from S25 of the Matrimonial Causes Act:

www.hmso.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukp...cukpga_19730018_en_4

Essentially, the court takes account of any children's needs (whether they be children by the marriage, or children of the marraige), relative income levels of each party, future income potential of each party, pension of either party, housing needs of each party, any disbilities of either party or their dependants.

It could be argued that you have your son's housing needs to accomodate, where his daughter's needs are met by her mother.

It could also be argued that there is a great disparity between your incomes and that you and your dependant son's needs mean that his 'spare' income after housing hmself require a payment of spousal maintenance util you can move, settle and get full time work.

It could also be argued that whilst he put £75K into the house originally, you would be unable to buy / motgage an adequate property with his proposed settlement of £72K.

A court might order that you get a better split of equity on that basis.

if he has a substantive pension, then yes, you would be entitled to a share in that - it is an asset of the marriage. Maybe he would prefer to offer more equity for you to leave his pension untouched.

Many ways of skinning a cat but I fell that you are selling yourself very short.

I know that you want to keep it amicable, but would suggest that you go to mediation to set up a fair settlement, then have it ratified by independant legal advice on both sides. THat way, one it is drafted to a Consent Order when the divorce is finalised, neither party can claim that it was an unfair settlement. Amicable is really good until money comes into the equation!

Anyway, best of luck, am sure others will have a view on this. My feeling is that you should be looking at more than is on the table currently. Take care and keep it as amicable as you can. A lifetime is a long time!
Mike

Hi MJJ

I am currently trying to agree a financial settlement before we got to FDR on 17th April.

I have 5 children from the marriage and I am currently offering a 50/50 split of equity (with him then giving me back £10K in recognition of a gambling debt of his making paid off when we bought our current property). I am suggesting that I offset my share of his pension for his share of equity in the house, and that he gives me £3K lump some to make up the difference or a small % of his pension through a pension share.

I am also asking for SM following the 1 1/3rd rule as I have no income.

I am hoping that he will accept this offer but am not holding my breath. I do feel though that if it went to final hearing that I may well get awarded a fair deal more. I just want my divorce and the finances sorted out. I face losing the house if things drag on much more. Hence why I am making him what I see as a more than reasonable offer in the hope that he will accept and we can all move on.

I know I have gone on about my situation but thought it may help to show you what I have proposed with the advice of a solicitor.

I do feel that yours would be classed as a fairly short marriage and this is a factor in whether the £75K is purely his or an asset of the marriage.

Another point to bear in mind is that just as you are entitled to a share of his pension yours would have to be balanced out in his favour too. Only pension acrued during the marriage is relevent so you would be entitled to 5 over how ever many years the pension has been running. ie i was married for 11 years but my x2b's pension has been running 15 years, so I would be entitled to 50% of 11/15th. But bear in mind that with offsetting the pension you cut that down to about 25% (33% if you are lucky). The same would apply to your pension.

You may want to apply for a CETV for both of your pensions so that you know a rough amount. If his pension is worth a great deal you may also want to get an actaury report done.

Don't be rushed into making a decision re: finances until you are fully aware if the facts. Like Mike says, you don't want to sell yourself short.

I have my reasons for offering a more than reasonable settlement but you need to look at yours and your son's future needs.

Regards, Sarah

It all depends on what you think is fair, which is often far different from how the Courts see it.

Do you think it is fair to take his original 75k is the split he is proposing is enough for you to start a new life on?

Do you think it is fair that he pays for your son for the rest of his life?

Do you think it is fair to take his pension that he has worked hard for?

It depends on why you only work part-time - what was the initial deal when you were married?

I think you need to be honest with yourself, what you think is right, what he thinks is right, and leave the COurts out of it until you have to.

Remember, what you are entitled to claim is not always the right thing to do...

In the case Miller v Miller it was said in many ways a short marriage is just as important as a longer one in relation to equality and matrimonial property. The source of assets is less important with the passage of time and courts will now take into account periods of cohabitation. If there has been a long, seamless period of cohabitation this may be added to the length of the relationship.

The first consideration for sharing assets is the welfare of children of the family under the age of 18 (this doesn't apply just to children of the relationship.) It's not more important than the other matters in s25 Matrimonial Causes Act 1973, but it is the priority. If one spouse has the main responsibility of caring for children, their needs will be considered first, and their capital needs may be greater as they will need a bigger property in order to house the children and/or they may have less ability to raise mortgage finance.

IMHO it is a good idea to consult a lawyer early on and find out where you stand and what all your options are, even if it is only a once off appointment.

Hi, I am going to step in here and stop a potential forum arguement. We all have to remember that we are all here because our relationships have broken down. MJJ was purely asking for a few opinions, not asking to be slated for what she may see is fair or not.

I am sure many of us feel bitterness towards our x partners but we should try not to put that on the people we are offering an opinion to.

Juttabeck I am sure it was not your intention to imply anything.

Although the marriage only lasted for 5 years I am sure that was not the intention of either party. The husband put in £75K towards the FMH. I am not saying whether he should walk away with his money or not. As for his pension, she is entitled to a share for the 5 years they were married, this will probably not equate to much but could be used to acquire slightly more equity from the property.

Yes her son is not his son, but he has effectively been a second dad to him for over half his life and I am sure he would want to see him adequately provided for.

None of us really knows the others situations when we comment on these posts and we should just remember we all have our reasons for doing what we do, whether others see that as right or not. We are all here for support and we should all just take a step back before clicking on the send button. Hey I am as much to blame as the next person but just wanted to avert any misunderstandings.

We are all somewhat vulnerable at this time and sometimes read more into things than maybe was meant.

Take care both MJJ and Juttabeck,

Regards, Sarah

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to offer advice.

I never even considered I was entitled to anything other than 50% of joint equity and didn't know of the existence of spousal maintenance or pension sharing until I read about such things on sites like this!

At the end of the day it would be nice if we could both walk away with a life.

He'll be left with the FMH and its contents and I'll have to move away from family and friends, change my son's school and look for work elsewhere because I haven't a hope of financing a property where we live now. I'll be starting totally from scratch.

I changed to part-time work because it was what we decided would suit us best as a family but I will go back f/t at the earliest opportunity. It was as much my decision as his so the decrease in my pension contributions due to my decreased salary over the past few years was my own wrong gamble. That's life I guess.