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First post - I hope it's not too long!

  • Maybenot
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15 Apr 08 #19656 by Maybenot
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Hello

Here is a brief description of my current situation. I have been married for 42 years, at the end of January 2008 my husband told me he wanted to separate, there was no one else involved, he would live with his sister until our house was sold.

We would split everything 50/50. We would share half of our pensions, mine was negligible, and this would be paid into my bank account each month. All was to be very amicable, I consulted with a solicitor, and he advised divorce was the best option, since we could not create a legal document regarding the financial situation with just a Separation Agreement.

I have subsequently discovered he is cohabiting, although he will not admit adultery he has agreed the lady he is living with is a very old friend, but the word cohabiting is in dispute. I do not know her, though for the past 2.1/2 years I has my suspicions, which he always denied.

Now he refuses all contact with me. He was writing to me each week calling it an update, really it was just his way of keeping control throwing in a couple of nasty/demeaning comments.

My problem is this – I have a pension which will only pay me about £80 PM when I’m 60 next year, our house is currently for sale @ £295000, I should have about £205000 at the end of this & perhaps a share of his private pension which in total pays £725 PM on top of this he receives benefits which total another £520, of course I’m not entitled to share his benefits.

My question is this – He stands to get say his share equal to £205000 plus the value of her house and assets. I know he intends to live in the UK & France. It seems to me that looking at the finances, my standard of living is really reduced yet he chose to leave, the entire family is still in shock, this was so unexpected. Any hints or tips would be welcomed. Thanks.

  • mike62
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16 Apr 08 #19683 by mike62
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Hello Maybenot and welcome to Wikivorce.
Hopefully you may find a few answers to the practical issues surrounding the emotional and legal minefield that is separation and divorce here. THere is also a caring community spirit of people who know the pain you are going through and can re-assure you that there is a happy and fulfilled life going forwards, when you are emotionally ready to do that.

To the specifics of your post........ I can only make observations and perhaps with some more detail, others may have additional commments to make.

42 years is a hell of a long time. I can imagine that you are a little daunted by the future, and of course, the finances.

It is not clear from your posting whether your husband is the same age as yourself at 59, but I assume he will be of a similar age.

In such a long marriage, the strting point for the division of assets is as you point out 50:50. However, were the matter to go to court for resolution, a number of factors come into play, namely The Matrimonial Causes Act s25.

Essentially, a court would look to leave both parties on as even a finacial footing as possible, post divorce. Clearly, your husband has significantly better pension provision than yourself and has additional benefits paid to him. The provisions of the MCA s25 that the court look at are:

[F16 25.
Matters to which court is to have regard in deciding how to exercise its powers under ss. 23, 24 and 24A.
— (1) It shall be the duty of the court in deciding whether to exercise its powers under section 23, 24 [F17 , 24A or 24B] above and, if so, in what manner, to have regard to all the circumstances of the case, first consideration being given to the welfare while a minor of any child of the family who has not attained the age of eighteen.
(2) As regards the exercise of the powers of the court under section 23(1)(a), (b) or (c), 24 [F18 , 24A or 24B]above in relation to a party to the marriage, the court shall in particular have regard to the following matters—
(a)
the income, earning capacity, property and other financial resources which each of the parties to the marriage has or is likely to have in the foreseeable future, including in the case of earning capacity any increase in that capacity which it would in the opinion of the court be reasonable to expect a party to the marriage to take steps to acquire;
(b)
the financial needs, obligations and responsibilities which each of the parties to the marriage has or is likely to have in the foreseeable future;
(c)
the standard of living enjoyed by the family before the breakdown of the marriage;
(d)
the age of each party to the marriage and the duration of the marriage;
(e)
any physical or mental disability of either of the parties to the marriage;
(f)
the contributions which each of the parties has made or is likely in the foreseeable future to make to the welfare of the family, including any contribution by looking after the home or caring for the family;
(g)
the conduct of each of the parties, if that conduct is such that it would in the opinion of the court be inequitable to disregard it;
(h)
in the case of proceedings for divorce or nullity of marriage, the value to each of the parties to the marriage of any benefit F19 . . . which, by reason of the dissolution or annulment of the marriage, that party will lose the chance of acquiring.
(3) As regards the exercise of the powers of the court under section 23(1)(d), (e) or (f), (2) or (4), 24 or 24A above in relation to a child of the family, the court shall in particular have regard to the following matters—
(a)
the financial needs of the child;
(b)
the income, earning capacity (if any), property and other financial resources of the child;
(c)
any physical or mental disability of the child;
(d)
the manner in which he was being and in which the parties to the marriage expected him to be educated or trained;
(e)
the considerations mentioned in relation to the parties to the marriage in paragraphs (a), (b), (c) and (e) of subsection (2) above.
(4) As regards the exercise of the powers of the court under section 23(1)(d), (e) or (f), (2) or (4), 24 or 24A above against a party to a marriage in favour of a child of the family who is not the child of that party, the court shall also have regard—
(a)
to whether that party assumed any responsibility for the child’s maintenance, and, if so, to the extent to which, and the basis upon which, that party assumed such responsibility and to the length of time for which that party discharged such responsibility;
(b)
to whether in assuming and discharging such responsibility that party did so knowing that the child was not his or her own;
(c)
to the liability of any other person to maintain the child.]


Clearly, you are a year from retirement and looking at £80 pm plus state pension.

That is a long way from his pension and benefits.

So it would be normal to negotiate a bigger share of the marital assets and / or a share of his pension to ensure some equality.

Your house is on the market at £295,000. I assume it is a 'family' sized house? How much would a smaller 2 bed house, more suited to your needs cost in your area?

FOr example, if it were to be £195K, perhaps it would be reasonable for you to take that £195K out of the house equity, split the 205K 50:50 and take a 50% share of his pension.

THat way, your housing needs are resolved and you have a modest income to sustain you ongoing. Maybe he would prefer to offset the pension share against further equity in the house - 50% of his pension is worth £362 / month = £4344 pa. Say he has a life expectany of 20 years, so that would equate to £86K - he might prefer to give over more equity to keep his pension intact. SO he foregoes a further £86K of equity. So maybe you keep the house entirely, split the £205K and he keeps his pension.

You speak of his 'cohabitation' that isn't really. Where is he living? Are his housong needs met? If they are, he is on a sticky wicket to argue otherwise.

THe most cost effective solution is to engage your husband in mediation, where you sit together with a trained mediator and thrash out this kind of agreement. See this thread:

www.wikivorce.com/divorce/Divorce-Forum/...rough-mediation.html

If it descends into the legal route, then you just kiss goodbye to an awful lot of money on solicitors, barristers and court fees. Anything from £7K to £30K or even more. How silly is that?

I hope that I have given you a flavour of how these matters are best resolved, but please do ask more questions if you need help.

It must be a very difficult time for you. All of your adult life together. I wish you well in your new life. There is a very fulfilling life for you, although it is not so obvious at the moment. It is about finding yourself again, and rebuilding yourself into the fun loving character that you once were, in singledom.

Best of luck Maybenot,

Mike

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16 Apr 08 #19729 by Maybenot
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Hello Mike

I would like to thank you for the encouragement. My husband will be 63 this year, we married in March & I was 17 in May, we have been together a very long time. I’m not impressed with the solicitor I have he is currently working on my form E, I seem always to be defending myself against him, I just don’t think he’s right for me.

Our house is family sized, empty & mortgage free & currently on the market for £295,000 we have about £110,000 in ISA’s, savings etc. I paid the reduced NI stamp all my working life and have no right to a state pension, this I have in writing. My own private pensions will be no more than about £82 PM.

Negotiating a larger share of the marital assets is what I want to do. He is cohabiting, I do have various bits of evidence that he has been seeing this woman for at least 2 years, but my solicitor is not interested, he seems to want me to let my husband divorce me on the grounds of UB, in order to save me money, but I feel strongly that this is not right, he created this situation which has torn the family apart, the solicitor says the divorce & subsequent financial agreements are quite separate and one will not influence the outcome of the other.

I have arranged to meet another – female solicitor on 25th of this month, if I like her, have more confidence in her I will the ask her to help me, also she is local to where I am currently living on a temporary basis, my marital home is a good hours run from here, it always upsets me going back & looking at what once was to be our last house.

Regards

Maybenot

  • mike62
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16 Apr 08 #19732 by mike62
Reply from mike62
Maybenot,

Memories - they do hurt. Ask anyone here.

Something to bear in mind in all of this. Divorce in the UK is no blame. Regardless of his 'adultery', it won't make an ounce of difference to the way the finances are handled. Your first solicitor was actually giving you some very good advice - go for Unreasonable Behaviour and just get on with it. Adultery can be messy, very hard to prove and inflammatory. The burden of proof extends to proving penatrative sex with a member of the opposite sex. E-mails, correspondance, sightings and other 'circumstantial' evidence etc count for nothing. Sorry if that was a bit graphic or unexpected, but forewarned is forearmed.


You have to ask the question - Is the marriage over? If the answer is yes, then how you get the divorce is less important. The important thing is that you come out of hte marriage with enough to live an get on with building your new life.

It is very hard to let go and move on - after such a long marriage, you feel justified in making him see just what he has done. But at the end of the day, it matters little in the scheme of things.

It is easy to fall into the trap of using your solicitor as a counselor and let them make sympathetic noises to you. They are a very expensive resource that should be used sparingly. Please understand that although you want your husband to take some blame for his behaviour, you will be financially disadvantaged if you do pursue that avenue. It simply is not worth it. Solicitors love to hear 'I won't accept that on principle' as their fees are just growing and growing for every extra letter that they can spin it out into.

You may think me cynical, but I am sure many here will confirm my view.

You are right to feel comfortable with your solicitor, but be wary.

Best of luck and if we can help, please do ask

Mike

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16 Apr 08 #19733 by megan
Reply from megan
Hi Maybenot
I can't help on the financial side as I still have all that to sort out. However I can empathise as My H left in Nov. after36yrs together. He wasn't having an affair either..............right.
It is very lonely but you have to get out and do things , things you might not have had the chance to do before.
My sol has been great so far although I do worry about the cost, but she knows where I'm coming from and so far has come up trumps. If yours doesn't feel right then he probably isn't for you.
Thinking of you good luck
Megan

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16 Apr 08 #19734 by Maybenot
Reply from Maybenot
Thanks Mike, I think I'll save myself some money & let him divorce me for UB, I'll have the chance to agree to any claims he makes. It really is all about the finances in the end.

Maybenot

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16 Apr 08 #19736 by Maybenot
Reply from Maybenot
Thanks to you too Megan.

Maybenot

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