The UK's largest and most visited divorce site.
Modern, convenient and affordable services.

We've helped over 1 million people since 2007.

 
Click this button for details of our
email, phone nbr and free consultations.
 

Army pension

  • penny10p
  • penny10p's Avatar
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
More
04 May 09 #113228 by penny10p
Reply from penny10p
I think I'm finally starting to get the hang of it! So, to throw around some figures (chosen for ease of calculation), I was hoping that if ex got a pension of £20,000 and a lump sum of £60,000, I would get half,i.e. lump sum of £30000 and pension of £10000. I knew that I would not get my pension until I was 65. It seems my view was far too simplistic. If I am successful in my claim for half of the lump sum, would I get it when he gets his or does it get put into my pension pot and I don't actually get it as a lump sum at all? Using the above figures have I any hope of getting a pension of £10,000 of would it be likely to be greatly reduced even at age 65 due to my being female?

  • Active8
  • Active8's Avatar
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
More
04 May 09 #113350 by Active8
Reply from Active8
Don't confuse a serviceman's "terminal gratuity" and his pension, and the commuted lump sum they may take from the pension.

Servicemen get a payment, about 3x salary, when they leave the forces. This is, basically, a resettlement payment, it is to help them in transition into civilian life. It is not a part of the pension as such.

The pension is a pension (so far so good...) but it has special rules to enable a serviceman/woman to take pension income well before the law allows most people to take their pension. That special rule does NOT on the whole apply to the spouses who may get a pension share: they are not treated in the same way as their serving spouses.

The new rules referred to may allow a spouse to get their "pension share order pension" earlier than was the case, but taking it early will mean what you get by way of an income from it will be heavily reduced. Think of it this way: getting a pension share puts a notional sum into your pension pot. If you start drawing this 10 years earlier than you would have done, you don't have any more in the pot than before, but it has to be spread over an extra 10 years, so the yearly amounts are much smaller. And don't underestimate how much smaller: because the longer you live the more likely you are to die (if you see what I mean..) conversely taking the pension early means the figures have to take account of you being less likely to die soon, so they effectively hold more back.

The above will have actuaries cringing and rushing to correct me! but the idea is basically right: the earlier you take a pension, the bigger the "penalty" for doing so.

A service person entitled to their pension has an option to forfeit some of their income and take it instead as a lump sum. This is called commuting (changing income entitlement for capital entitlement). This is distinct from the terminal gratuity.

Dayglow- don't know where you got your advice, but its confused...
- you don't necessarily get half (or any other %age), but you are right that you could only get it at your retirement age: the new rules may however change this but see the warning above.
- the final gratuity is not split by the court, in fact it can't be (altho I have seen this overlooked!) It was made immune from being "charged" by law, to protect it from being used for anything other than "resettlement": it can't be used as security for a loan, for example. Equally, it can't be subject to a court order.
- you appear to be confusing the "new rules" with the pension sharing provisions that have been in force since 2000


Marsa- there is no principle that a pension is shared equally, or that the starting point is based on the proportion of the marriage compared to total time served in the Forces. Both may be so in some cases, but they are not in any way "rules" or even guidelines in law. HOWEVER, in some courts a general practice does build up and it may be that there are places where these rules hold more true than elsewhere. Never lose sight of the fact that altho "the law" is the same across England & Wales (but totally different in Scotland), it is applied by District Judges (generally) in County Courts, and they can establish their own preferred practices.

Penny10p: Similarly, pension and gratuity are different things.

And one further point: if a wife gets half of her husband's pension (i.e. 50% of CEV) her pension will not be the same as his... Statistically women live longer, so their pension payments per annum will be lower. If a wife wants to get the same amount of pension as their serviceman husband, you need an actuary to work out what percentage of the pension the wife needs to get in their pension sharing order to achieve this.

I hope I've got most of this right! If not, someone will no doubt shout at me very soon... Peter may come in to explain some of this stuff better than I can, from the actuarial side.

  • penny10p
  • penny10p's Avatar
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
More
05 May 09 #113529 by penny10p
Reply from penny10p
Active, thanks for all the great info. I just want to check, are you sure the gratuity is not part of the pension? The following is from the pensions on divorce booklet that Marsa provided a link to.
"In England and Wales under
the pension sharing regulations, a
court may order that a percentage
of the value of your benefits (valued
at a specified date close to the date
of the order) are transferred
permanently to your former spouse.
This percentage is applied to the
following elements of your benefits
to create a pension debit:
• pension, including in-scheme
AVCs;
• pension lump sum;
• spouse’s or civil partner’s"
I thought that the lump sum refered to was the same as the terminal gratuity that you speak of. If they are different then what is the pension lump sum?

  • Active8
  • Active8's Avatar
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
More
05 May 09 #113624 by Active8
Reply from Active8
penny10p - I'll check the link and come back and report! That quote can't be specifically related to Forces pensions, I assume, due to the reference to AVCs.
The terminal gratuity is, I recollect, specifically subject to statute that says it cannot be charged. I think confusion arises from the facts that (a) it is paid at the same time as the pension so gives the impression of being part of it, rather than just being contemporaneous and (b) pensions can give rise to lump sum payments by commutation.

But I'll double check the reference and let you know.

  • didojane
  • didojane's Avatar
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
More
06 May 09 #114203 by didojane
Reply from didojane
This thread is getting more and more interesting to me . And I think I am understanding a little bit more now thank you .
I do how ever have a question regarding the the terminal grant that the solider is paid at the end of his 22 years .
Are we entitled to claim against this. I was under the understanding that as part of the divorce settlement we would be able to ask for a percentage of this too .

Thank you Dido x

  • Elle
  • Elle's Avatar
  • User is blocked
  • User is blocked
More
07 May 09 #114209 by Elle
Reply from Elle
Is it not better to get Peter or Nigel to direct you here?

Elle x

  • TMax
  • TMax's Avatar
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
More
07 May 09 #114217 by TMax
Reply from TMax
OK being the retired soldier I can tell you that your husbands pensions or worth more to you than just the lump sum dependant on rank when leaving and term served.

You could be looking at at todays prices a goverment pension of your own of say £95 PW and a pension from your hubbys side between £80 possibly 150.00 PW as i say dependant on rank. you roughly get around a 1/3 of his entitlement. but what ever make sure you get his pension rights checked over your self as mod will not give you a true assesment.

oh and your still entitled to half his gratuity

Moderators: wikivorce teamrubytuesdaydukeyhadenoughnowTetsSheziLinda SheridanForsetiMitchumWhiteRoseLostboy67WYSPECIALBubblegum11

Do you need help sorting out a fair financial settlement?

Our consultant service offers expert advice and support to help you reach agreement on a fair financial settlement quickly, and for less than a quarter of the cost of using a traditional high street solicitor.

 

We can help you to get a fair financial settlement.

Negotiate a fair deal from £299

Helping you negotiate a fair financial settlement with your spouse (or their solicitor) without going to court.


Financial Mediation from £399

Financial mediation is a convenient and inexpensive way to agree on a fair financial settlement.


Consent Orders from £950

This legally binding agreement defines how assets (e.g. properties and pensions) are to be divided.


Court Support from £299

Support for people who have to go to court to get a fair divorce financial settlement without a solicitor.